Together with his blood-soaked tales of violence and vengeance like The Evening Comes for Us and Headshot, Timo Tjahjanto earned a status as one of many world’s goriest motion administrators. However he doesn’t see himself that means.
Tjahjanto started his filmmaking profession making slasher films as half of the Mo brothers, teaming up along with his longtime pal Kimo Stamboel. Because the finish of their formal partnership, the Mo brothers have largely labored on their very own tasks, with Stamboel working within the horror style and Tjahjanto primarily (however not solely) making violent motion films.
Tjahjanto took the motion world by storm with 2018’s The Evening Comes for Us, a brutal thriller led by two of Indonesian cinema’s foremost martial arts stars, Iko Uwais and Joe Taslim. The film often will get labeled as “motion horror,” regardless of its pretty typical crime-thriller narrative, due to how unflinchingly Tjahjanto depicts excessive, bone-breaking, blood-soaked violence. The fashionable, carnage-filled combat sequences left a mark on motion cinema different administrators are nonetheless scrambling to match.
His new film, The Shadow Strays, premiered on the Toronto Worldwide Movie Competition in September, and at last dropped on Netflix on Oct. 17. It follows a teenage soldier who’s being educated as a member of an elite group of top-secret assassins known as the Shadows. When a mission goes fallacious, she’s sidelined by the Shadows and will get entangled in a dispute between her younger neighbor and native gangsters. Like most Tjahjanto tasks, the movie options a number of decapitations and “gallons” of blood. (The director estimated 85% of the blood was sensible — like many splatter followers, the person loves squibs.) It’s additionally one among 2024’s finest motion films.
However Tjahjanto doesn’t take into account himself a very gory filmmaker — he sees his films as a strategy to be trustworthy about real-world penalties of violence. A self-described “indulgent” filmmaker, Tjahjanto — carrying a 9 Inch Nails shirt and feeling “exhausted and relieved” after not too long ago wrapping filming on the upcoming No person 2 — spoke with Polygon about his strategy to gore in motion, his cinematic influences, and sticking with sensible blood when the remainder of the trade is shifting to CG results.
This interview has been edited for concision and readability.
Polygon: I consider you as one of many gorier motion administrators working at present. Do you see your self that means?
Timo Tjahjanto: I don’t know. I don’t actually suppose so. Granted, I haven’t seen them — not as a result of I don’t wish to see them, however simply due to the timing of all of it and the accessibility of all of it — however I’ve heard there are movies like Kill and Challenge Wolf Searching that appear to be doing fairly OK in that division. From what little clips I’ve seen, they appear to be means bloodier.
I believe there was a section in my life — once I simply began as a filmmaker, I did this little movie with Kimo [Stamboel], my pal. It’s known as Macabre, one of many first Indonesian slasher movies. And I believe on the time, our purpose was like, Let’s be the goriest Indonesian flick ever. However weirdly, after The Evening Comes for Us and every little thing, I simply don’t really feel like I used to be essentially aiming for gore. I believe it’s simply that there must be a sure, weirdly sufficient, respect to violence and what it may possibly do to the human physique. I really feel like we’ve to, in a roundabout way, maintain ourselves accountable as filmmakers to point out simply how traumatizing violence will be.
We dwell in a violent world. For those who see what’s on the web, what’s on previously referred to as Twitter, X, simply the accessibility of violent content material — individuals from loads of components of America, for instance, there’s lots of people getting riled up and begin beating one another up for nothing. Not that I’m saying America is the one violent place. I believe the world typically has change into a way more violent place, or rather more uncovered to the media. It’s bizarre when individuals see my movies like, Holy shit, that’s so gory and violent! I’m like, Man, have you ever seen the true world? It’s so fucking loopy on the market that I really feel like typically my movie is a PG model of it.
I’m glad you introduced up the respect for violence, as a result of one of many causes I’m drawn to your strategy to gore in motion is as a result of it feels extra trustworthy. For those who’re not exhibiting that stage of destruction, you’re sanitizing the violence, and never being trustworthy with the viewer concerning the precise results of what’s taking place.
That’s what I all the time attempt to do. I believe the human physique is weirdly fragile and resilient on the similar time. If any of your bones have been damaged, or when you’ve ever had a deep reduce, it’s so bizarre how biology reacts to all of it.
However past that, gore may also add stakes to a scene, it may possibly add pleasure, it may possibly add humor. How do you stability these parts?
Properly, that’s the factor. I believe at a sure stage, violence has to change into humorous. And I realized this from, or I copied this from, the good Takashi Miike. I believe he’s all the time strolling that line, realizing that the world is a loopy, fucked-up place, and a method you’ll be able to take care of it’s through the use of loads of humor. For those who watch one thing like Ichi the Killer, for instance, that factor is darkish, man. In Takashi Miike’s world, every little thing is truthful and sq.. Ladies, males, we’re each able to violence, and we’re each able to being the sufferer. And I attempt to do this in my movies.
One instance I believe is fascinating is The Massive 4, which has a tonal distinction out of your different films.
Properly, I believe simply because it’s gory doesn’t essentially imply it must be a feel-bad film. I believe that works fairly properly. Dangerous Boys could be a feel-good expertise, and it has its moments of violence. And gore, particularly when you’re speaking about Dangerous Boys II — Michael Bay actually pushes the restrict to what kinetic violence will be. And I all the time really feel like, you may make a much less violent movie and it turns into a a lot gloomier movie, however you may also make a way more splattery and “head getting blown off by a shotgun” film, and it nonetheless ultimately has a heartwarming high quality to it. Have a look at Shaun of the Lifeless, one among my favorites. And that factor is the final word feel-good movie… relying on the way you have a look at it.
You introduced up Macabre earlier. Do you suppose your horror roots have an effect by way of your notion of gore in motion?
Form of, sure. However having mentioned that, I believe it’s additionally childishness. Look, a part of the wonder in horror is, you don’t essentially must be gory by way of the strategy to thrills. And as a lot as I might like to say, “Oh, I’m very well-versed in horror,” I believe proper now I’m solely well-versed in a selected kind of horror, which is one that’s usually violent. I believe loads of that comes from me rising up on Friday the thirteenth and Texas Chain Noticed Bloodbath. Texas Chain Noticed Bloodbath has such a big impact on me by way of how I have a look at violence, which is relentless.
I in all probability watch it possibly a couple of times a yr. It by no means ceases to amaze me. Once you’re in your teenagers and also you watch it, you suppose it’s the bloodiest movie ever. After which whenever you watch it once more after you’ve grown up, there’s hardly any blood in it. It’s pure terror and it’s pure viscerality with out really exhibiting you something. And there lies the genius of Tobe Hooper making this movie. So yeah, I’m just a bit bit much less disciplined than individuals like Tobe Hooper.
I beloved what you needed to say to some critics of The Shadow Strays about how filmmaking is an indulgent act, and I actually respect that you simply see it that means, that making artwork is one thing that you simply do for your self, and the hope is that different persons are on board with you.
I believe that’s the factor. I don’t imply that to assault a critique: I believe once I noticed the critique, I used to be like, Oh, properly, I agree with loads of it. I believe truthfully, I’m the type of filmmaker who all the time goes for character first and plotting later. In order that’s why my plots are usually simplistic. And I do admit that I really feel, properly, most tales have been advised. For me, it’s higher to depend on the humanity of the characters and hope that the viewers can maintain onto that.
However when individuals say, “Hey, an excessive amount of self-indulgence will be an excessive amount of of a superb factor,” I really feel like, Properly, no. As a result of right here I’m given sufficient freedom, fortunately, by Netflix to do nearly every little thing that I wish to do, and I believe I’ve to type of bask in it relatively than restrain myself, though I’m nonetheless restraining myself. If I went full indulgence, I believe you’d see loads of kinkier shit in it, and all these sick type of violent photographs that I’ve. I all the time really feel like, a movie-watching expertise, you will have to have the ability to give every little thing you’ve bought to the viewers. It’s not like a sequence, it’s not like The Boys, the place you may fail within the first episode or second episode, however you may make it up within the eighth episode.
I simply really feel like, Properly, I’ve this many hours, and I simply wish to give my viewers the shit that they need. Have a look at RRR — that movie is self-indulgent as fuck, and it’s the most effective movies ever made on this planet. I simply really feel there’s a time for self-restraint, however motion is a kind of genres the place you simply have to carry on pulling the set off. Sometime I’ll be a greater author and I’ll in all probability do higher plotting, however for now, I’m nonetheless studying.
The depiction of blood and gore has modified over time, with new expertise main loads of productions to maneuver away from sensible blood and squibs and over to VFX blood. What’s your philosophy on that?
It’s bizarre. I noticed that there was a critique [of The Shadow Strays] that claims, Oh, using CGI blood. Weirdly, Shadow Strays is like 85% sensible blood. I believe that it’s simply due to the expertise that I exploit, which is loads of blood tubing and all that stuff. It does look extreme to the purpose that you simply suppose it’s really CGI. I delight myself in taking loads of time for The Shadow Strays. Issues can get lengthy within the taking pictures course of, simply because inserting all these squibs and blood tubes takes time.
That’s what I all the time hear, is how a lot it expands the finances and your time simply from cleansing up between takes.
Precisely. And costumes, and all these little issues. Thankfully, making movies in Indonesia, I can type of afford it. So I really indulge the fuck out of constructing all these issues. Watching The Shadow Strays so many instances by way of enhancing, I had the suspicion persons are going to suppose that is really CGI blood, though it’s really meticulous condom use and timed blood tubes and all that stuff. I’m a proponent of utilizing as many squibs as attainable. I do know that’s cumbersome. However actors react higher to it. They react, they really feel the ache. They really feel like, Oh shit, blood’s actually spurting out of me. And that all the time helps.
There are some enhancements, simply because typically the blood doesn’t redirect the way in which it ought to. However man, we have been having enjoyable. There have been all the time gallons of blood behind the digital camera the place we pump it up there. Particularly for the primary sequence — that complete Japanese sequence is me being impressed by Takeshi Kitano’s Zatoichi, however he was utilizing CGI blood. I used to be considering, I wish to be like Kitano, when he simply utterly goes batshit with blood, however I’m going to attempt to use sensible blood tubes. In order that’s what we did, man.
You’ve talked about Kitano, you’ve talked about Miike, you’ve talked about Tobe Hooper. Are there another massive figures for you in terms of depicting violence on display and their use of gore?
Martin Scorsese. When he’s taking pictures violence, it’s nearly like he typically reverts again to being a younger filmmaker. And I believe he all the time has that spirit of being a younger filmmaker. That’s the fantastic thing about him. He will be 89 and he nonetheless shoots like a 35-year-old Sam Peckinpah on coke and LSD. Among the best violent scenes that I believe is usually neglected is definitely in The Departed, when Jack Nicholson and Ray Winstone bought ambushed. Similar to this fucking crash zoom lands and [there’s] fucking blood and [mimics the blood spraying everywhere] and all that shit. And I used to be like, Man, that’s fucking lovely! I wish to steal that shit. However I nonetheless don’t have sufficient talent to do it. Sometime!
Do you will have a favourite spot of gore in The Shadow Strays?
Aurora [Ribero], who performs 13, I all the time mentioned to her, “You might be expert, however you might be additionally clumsy. That’s the entire level of your character. You may have loads of endurance since you are younger,” as she is actually in actual life, “however you might be usually clumsy in your preventing. However as soon as we hand you a sharp-edge weapon, you go berserk.” Each time she’s given any weapon of sharp edge, be it a kitchen knife, be it a fucking screwdriver, she simply goes loopy. I all the time beloved that.
By the top of taking pictures, she turned so good at it. It’s so fucking cool. She by no means had any martial arts expertise, and each time she does the stabbing, it’s nearly like anyone who’s been dwelling in jail for 30 years and is a grasp shanker. She’s so good. And there’s a complete sequence later within the movie, when she fights a sure anyone and he or she simply makes use of a screwdriver to go loopy — I believe that’s one among my favorites, simply due to how ridiculous it seemed with the blood and every little thing, and simply how properly it is sensible, as a result of at this level she doesn’t have something to lose. She’s simply going loopy, and I like that.
The Shadow Strays is on Netflix now.
